[dvd3500]

Total and utter FUD (fear uncertainty and doubt) being posted here...
Try some real valid sources before posting such nonsense:

No nonsense in my post.  The information from my distribution network operator is directly quoted from a telephone conversation with one of their people when I was seriously thinking about buying an EV.  They would only quote a firm price for the upgrade if I made a firm commitment for them to go ahead with the work.  As I also posted they will only do the upgrade on the whole terrace of houses.

.........Or do you not consider my real-world experience when making a genuine enquiry to the people who actually carry-out the necessary infrastructure upgrade to be a "real valid source"?

By the time I responded your post had slipped in and my comment was not in reference to your personal experience.
So no, of course I would not consider your own direct experience as nonsense.

One point though: You can charge any EV on any outlet. Lidl just had them on sale.  Cost about 50 of your favorite currency. They pull between 1.8 and 3.7 KW, barely more than an induction stove. They have all the circuitry to to ensure that wires are not overloaded.

I just used one on the weekend to charge our Jeep Avenger.

Sure it took forever but it was below 30%. 
For your wife going 20ish miles the car would be fully charged easily every day....

You don't need a wall charger to charge an EV....
In fact, when I do use the charger I either use the Enyaq's ability to reduce the rate to 5.5 KW or as in the Jeeps case a normal 230 Volt connection. Simply because I know I have the time and is supposed to be better for the battery...

[dvd3500]

I wonder why Ford and GM are closing down EV production lines and laying people off.

Because they built big, expensive cars that no one wanted...?

BYD, MG and Tesla seem to not be having a problem..

[Kevan]

They're all big and expensive, does anyone make small and sensibly priced EVs?

[StuBeeDoo]

dvd3500:  of course I would not consider your own direct experience as nonsense

I may have over-reacted on the spur of the moment.  I apologise.  

[Henk]

At your demand: https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/item/het-...-opgelost/

[Savage GT]

I am not sure that Sainsbury's locally is free, I'll have to check next time I go 

Yes they are Tel, any Sainsbury's with charging points gives customers free electricity while they are in the store. Not the fastest rate but enough for 30 miles travel after an hour.

Returning to my original gripe:
regardless of your views on the merits or otherwise of EVs do you think it acceptable for a supermarket to give one section of its customer base (EV owners) a free gift while denying the same benefit to a much larger portion of their customers (IC car owners)? I am sorely tempted to put 5 litres of petrol in my car on my next visit and refuse to pay for it on the basis that I am also entitled to 30 miles of free travel!

"Twin 3kW Pod Point, Kirk-Jack. (De-rated from 7kW due to supply issues)"
About half the speed I get from my home charger, if they are working, which is a lottery 

Its just so they can claim extra Greta points 

Personally I had no issue with it even before I got the EV, guess I am less grumpy than I thought !

[woodcote]

So my grocery spend is now subsidising other peoples' fuel consumption. I doubt they are going to give me free petrol next time I fill up though!

Any EV charging costs are probably dwarfed by other costs your grocery shop is subsidising - and that all started with the shift to out-of-town hypermarkets through the nineties and noughties. Cheap petrol was a key mechanism to win new customers and maintain loyalty. A lot has changed in the UK fuel retail market since then, but all shoppers continue to subsidise lower petrol prices and fuel promotions via their grocery spend.

Then there's the ongoing costs of infrastructure improvements, community schemes and bus services that were part of the original planning deals - to mitigate environmental and social impacts. When I shop at my nearerst Sainsbury's superstore, my grocery spend subsidises a bus that runs a few times a day through numerous local communities not served by regular bus services and ends up at Sainsbury's. It is often quite busy - and not just with Sainsbury's customers. I think that's a good subsidy.

The latest, biggest and maddest subsidy is online home delivery. It has made the average out-of-town supermarket more like an Amazon warehouse, with teams of poorly-paid pickers going round the aisles doing other people's shopping. It's a dubious business model at best and makes little economic sense for the supermarkets. There is an insane drive to offer better home delivery services to capture more of the market share, but every extra delivery means an extra loss for the business. Those of us who physically shop in store massively subsidise those who don't. We do the job of a picker, driver and often a checkout worker for free, using our own vehicle and our own fuel - but we pay the same price for our groceries.

Advertising 'free EV charging' is a gimmick, because when I've seen it, all the older, smaller limited-range Zoes and Leafs are parked in the disabled parking spots next to the Supermarket doors, not on the chargers. I'm sure these drivers charge at home overnight and have plenty of range for their routine activities. The people these stores are going for with the EV charging gimmick is undoubtedly those driving big, expensive electric SUVs - but I suspect they are doing their grocery shopping from Ocado.

[StuBeeDoo]

I spent the final five years of my working as a supermarket home delivery driver.  Woodcote is absolutely spot-on regarding home deliveries.  The amount it costs the company must be astronomical.

A few of the things you wouldn't believe about a day in the life of just one driver.........

Sitting doing nothing but read for nearly two hours during the course of the shift, waiting for the allotted time to make the next delivery.  There's no point calling the customer to see if they will accept the delivery early because if they will you'll just have to repeat the process.  If you get back to the store too early you'll lose the time and, consequently, pay.
Pulling into the street where your next delivery is to see one of your colleagues from the same store already delivering to your customer's neighbour.
Then you drive 20+ miles to your next delivery, and then back again to the same street for the following one, then drive nearly all the way back to the one 20+ miles away for the one after that.  Four deliveries for nearly 90 miles covered when it could have been done in half the miles and time.

Why should I care about any of this?  I'm getting paid by the hour.  But as Woodcote says, it isn't a good business model by any stretch of the imagination.

The examples I've given aren't isolated incidents, they're regular occurrences.

[dvd3500]

At your demand: https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/item/het-...-opgelost/

Bedankt!

Indeed. The Netherlands does seem to have a problem. Here in Germany up until last year there were a lot of problems too, mostly bureaucratic.  A farm not far from here had a 5 Mega(!) watt solar installation plus a wind mill. It took over 5 years to get permission to turn it on. Even though they promise not to pump the power out to the grid if that was the problem (a problem cited in many of the articles like the one you mentioned).

There are problems.
I never said there weren't.

I also never said that an EV driver is a "holier" person than an ICE driver. There are some smug puppets out there, some say Tesla drivers that act that way but I am not one of them. In fact I chose our EVs (Skoda Enyaq and Jeep Avenger) because they look more or less like normal cars...

I doubt 5% of the people in my street could afford any of the current EVs.

I used to restore cars as a hobby (and am rebuilding one now...) and I am the "go to guy" for minor repairs in my street.
I help as much as I can. Funny side-note: Being in Germany people are shocked SHOCKED that a French teacher knows how to fix cars... I get asked a LOT how I know how to do it. When I say I can read and I know left from right they don't believe me. :-D

I am very, very fortunate to have a wall charger, to be getting solar panels this year and having the space to park and charge at home.
I am however fully aware that this type of thing is driving a wedge through society and causing the gap between the rich and the poor to become larger. I seriously see this as a problem.

I only made the "FUD" comment statement because for most of the concerns people have about EVs there really is no problem, there is already a solution or the problem is not as large as many seem to try to make it. Quentin Wilson has successfully made many newspapers retract statement that are categorically false or at the very least misleading.

Are there problems?
Of course.
Are EVs perfect?
Definitely not.


For most people getting their cars in tip top condition and driving them for as long as possible is probably the best way to go for the next 10-15 years.

As a former educator I simply get more than mildly annoyed when someone states there is a problem and I know there is a solution.

When someone however states there IS a problem, like StuBeeDo's house's wiring not being up to snuff or your Dutch power grid issues I take them seriously.


Really all I am trying to do is help and inform. People will have to make their own decisions at the end of the day and I will respect that, always.

I wish everyone a safe, warm Friday and a great weekend....!

[Henk]

I'm certainly not against EV's, f.e. I think it a good idea to have electrical transporters servicing shop in city centers.

As I wrote, I actually was/am thinking of an EV as well. Reason is the Dutch "salderingsregeling" (netting scheme) where the electricity used is balanced with the electricity produced by my solar panels. It doesn't matter when I use or generate it, it is always equaled out. 

For the electricity generated extra by my solar panels I get peanuts money, 5 cent per kilowatt hour while they charge about 40 (before taxes are added). Now the Dutch government want to end this netting scheme over a couple of years, so they will gradually bring it down to 0%. It's still not completely certain, that's why I am holding back. But if they go ahead with the original planning it will be profitable for me to buy an EV and load it with my with my solar panels.

But, as you can guess, I have to confess it's a financial decision. It has not much to do with the climate but more with my wallet.

Have a lovely weekend too.