[Tibbs]

Hi Guys,
can you use a inline pinion with a sidewinder Crown gear?
I'm planning a couple of scratch build sidewinder's and don't know if there is a difference or not.
I'm assuming there must be something otherwise why would they sell them as they do.
Cheers
Tony

[Kevan]

Yes, I've mixed and matched gears for years.

[Tibbs]

Yes, I've mixed and matched gears for years.

Thanks Kev,
doing a little looking at Pendle's there doesn't seem to be to many low number crowns ie 28 tooth 30, 32 .
What is the difference using a 17.5mm or 18mm to say a 15.5mm size crown?
cheers
Tony

[Kevan]

Do you mean spur gears? crowns are inline gears.

It's the number of teeth that matter for gearing, the diameter only matters to get the distance between the motor and axle right for a smooth gearmesh.

[Tibbs]

Do you mean spur gears? crowns are inline gears.

It's the number of teeth that matter for gearing, the diameter only matters to get the distance between the motor and axle right for a smooth gearmesh.

Yes spur, I didn't know a crown was the name for inline etc. It's the same big gear to me
So what your saying about meshing, what ever gear I buy I can build the motor position to suit?

[Kevan]

Yes as long as it's physically possible.

[chrisguyw]

So what your saying about meshing, what ever gear I buy I can build the motor position to suit?

To a point, you are correct, but, as you have indicated that you wish to build sidewinder configurations, the size of the motor, specifically the width of the motor can, will dictate the diameter of the gears you will need to use.

Eg,.......Slot-it sidewinders (130 sized motors) come with a 6.5mm pinion, coupled with an 18.0mm Spur,....this provides enough distance (the diameter of both gears combined) to allow the gears to mesh properly, while allowing the rear of the can to clear the rear axle.

When using a "130" sized motor in a sidewinder configuration , the important figure is the  combined total diameter of both the pinion and Spur, so in the above example 24.5 mm (6.5 pinion + 18.0mm Spur).........so, any combination of pinion/Spur diameters that add to 24.5 will provide adequate motor/axle clearance and mesh.........so,.......you can use a 5.5mm pinion with an 19.0mmm Spur, a 7.0mm pinion with a 17.5mm Spur,...etc, etc.

A narrower motor (FF050), will allow the use of 4.5mm pinions coupled with 16.5mm Spurs,........with any set of gears with a combined dia. of 21.0 mm (4.5mm + 16.5mm) working just fine.

The above examples are for "pure" sidewinders,.........you can "cheat" a touch as does NSR/Thunderslot  by using a slight angle (2 degrees) on their motors in relation to the rear axle,...........this allows for the use of slightly smaller diameter Spur gears with in turn allows for smaller rear dia. tires, lowering the cg. and improving handling.

Cheers
Chris Walker

Here is a sidewinder using a 6.5mm pinion, and an 18.0mm spur,........just enough rear axle/motor can clearance





A  plastic MRSlotcar chassis (050 motor) using a 4.5 mm pinion and a 16.5mm Spur.



Another using a 6.5mm pinion and an 18.0mm Spur

[Tibbs]

So what your saying about meshing, what ever gear I buy I can build the motor position to suit?

To a point, you are correct, but, as you have indicated that you wish to build sidewinder configurations, the size of the motor, specifically the width of the motor can, will dictate the diameter of the gears you will need to use.

Eg,.......Slot-it sidewinders (130 sized motors) come with a 6.5mm pinion, coupled with an 18.0mm Spur,....this provides enough distance (the diameter of both gears combined) to allow the gears to mesh properly, while allowing the rear of the can to clear the rear axle.

When using a "130" sized motor in a sidewinder configuration , the important figure is the  combined total diameter of both the pinion and Spur, so in the above example 24.5 mm (6.5 pinion + 18.0mm Spur).........so, any combination of pinion/Spur diameters that add to 24.5 will provide adequate motor/axle clearance and mesh.........so,.......you can use a 5.5mm pinion with an 19.0mmm Spur, a 7.0mm pinion with a 17.5mm Spur,...etc, etc.

A narrower motor (FF050), will allow the use of 4.5mm pinions coupled with 16.5mm Spurs,........with any set of gears with a combined dia. of 21.0 mm (4.5mm + 16.5mm) working just fine.

The above examples are for "pure" sidewinders,.........you can "cheat" a touch as does NSR/Thunderslot  by using a slight angle (2 degrees) on their motors in relation to the rear axle,...........this allows for the use of slightly smaller diameter Spur gears with in turn allows for smaller rear dia. tires, lowering the cg. and improving handling.

Cheers
Chris Walker

Here is a sidewinder using a 6.5mm pinion, and an 18.0mm spur,........just enough rear axle/motor can clearance





A  plastic MRSlotcar chassis (050 motor) using a 4.5 mm pinion and a 16.5mm Spur.



Another using a 6.5mm pinion and an 18.0mm Spur

Ah Chris, thank you so much.
I found one of your chassis pics on HRW, your explanation is perfect.
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain it.
Kind regards
Tony

[chrisguyw]

Hi Guys,
can you use a inline pinion with a sidewinder Crown gear?
I'm planning a couple of scratch build sidewinder's and don't know if there is a difference or not.
I'm assuming there must be something otherwise why would they sell them as they do.
Cheers
Tony

Hello Tony,.......I forgot to mention this in my previous post,......from a manufacturing and utility perspective, there is no such thing as an "inline"/"Sidewinder"/"Anglewinder" pinion,.......just a bunch of pinions with different diameters to fit the various motor pods used in the modern "plastic" car world.

What are known as "Inline" pinions, are all 5.5mm in diameter,.......and are this diameter to work with plastic car manufacturers "Crowns" (Inline) in order that the protruding motor shaft acts as centering device as its runs in the "trough" of the Crown gear, maintaining an acceptable mesh.

If you cut the motor shaft flush with the end of the pinion, you can use any dia. of pinion you wish to obtain the gear ratio you wish, based on you motor and track specifics.
So for those wishing to replace the pinion in their "Inline" cars, manufacturers calling these pinions "Inline", takes the guesswork out of the equation for those less mechanically inclined  .,.........but for no other reason is this dia, of pinion specific to an inline.

As an aside, cutting the motor shaft level with the pinion is a good move on an inline car,.......as on right hand corners, as the axle shifts laterally, and the motor shaft touches the wall of the Crown trough,....it is spinning in the opposite direction to the Crown,.....this greatly increase friction/wear,....and is the major cause of metal "dust" that many folks complain of.
If you do cut the motor shaft, yo will need to restrict the lateral movement of the axle by using spacers, and then set the lateral Crown position to achieve lash.

"Sidewinder" pinions are generally 6.5mm in dia. (to mesh with 18.0mm Spurs in a Slot-it pod), but again, there is absolutely nothing special/different  about them,..........just another case of making it somewhat idiot proof for the user.

Another aside,.......in days gone by,......gear mesh was either by moving the Crown (on inlines) laterally, or by moving the motor fore/aft (Sidewinders) to achieve mesh/lash..........todays plastic car manufacturers have chosen to either use troughs in their Crowns (inlines), and , or ,to fix the motor positions in SW/AW motor configurations, which has required them to bugger around with tooth counts on a fixed dia. Spur in order to offer gear ratio variations,.......this works to a point, but, changing the tooth count on a fixed dia. gear does alter its pitch, and therefore does have limitations.

Here is one of those conversion thingies to determine the ideal tooth count for any .5 metric module (all the popular 1/32 manufacturers) pinions/Spurs.

1/ Take the gear dia. and multiply by 2

2/ Subtract 2

EG.,..........a 6.5mm pinion

6.5 x 2 = 13 - 2 = 11,.............a perfect  tooth count for a .5 module pitch 6.5 mm pinion is 11.

This same calculation can be used for all dia. pinions/Spurs.

In general, you can deviate about 1 tooth either way on a pinion and 2/3 on a spur, and get a very good mesh,....any more and the tooth shape/spacing etc. change so much that the pitch also changes resulting in very poor mesh/noise/friction/wear.

As long as you are using modern day pinions/Crowns/Spurs,....all metric .5 module pitch (which they all are) you can mix match both diameters and Brands without issue.

Cheers
Chris Walker

[Tibbs]

Hi Guys,
can you use a inline pinion with a sidewinder Crown gear?
I'm planning a couple of scratch build sidewinder's and don't know if there is a difference or not.
I'm assuming there must be something otherwise why would they sell them as they do.
Cheers
Tony

Hello Tony,.......I forgot to mention this in my previous post,......from a manufacturing and utility perspective, there is no such thing as an "inline"/"Sidewinder"/"Anglewinder" pinion,.......just a bunch of pinions with different diameters to fit the various motor pods used in the modern "plastic" car world.

What are known as "Inline" pinions, are all 5.5mm in diameter,.......and are this diameter to work with plastic car manufacturers "Crowns" (Inline) in order that the protruding motor shaft acts as centering device as its runs in the "trough" of the Crown gear, maintaining an acceptable mesh.

If you cut the motor shaft flush with the end of the pinion, you can use any dia. of pinion you wish to obtain the gear ratio you wish, based on you motor and track specifics.
So for those wishing to replace the pinion in their "Inline" cars, manufacturers calling these pinions "Inline", takes the guesswork out of the equation for those less mechanically inclined  .,.........but for no other reason is this dia, of pinion specific to an inline.

As an aside, cutting the motor shaft level with the pinion is a good move on an inline car,.......as on right hand corners, as the axle shifts laterally, and the motor shaft touches the wall of the Crown trough,....it is spinning in the opposite direction to the Crown,.....this greatly increase friction/wear,....and is the major cause of metal "dust" that many folks complain of.
If you do cut the motor shaft, yo will need to restrict the lateral movement of the axle by using spacers, and then set the lateral Crown position to achieve lash.

"Sidewinder" pinions are generally 6.5mm in dia. (to mesh with 18.0mm Spurs in a Slot-it pod), but again, there is absolutely nothing special/different  about them,..........just another case of making it somewhat idiot proof for the user.

Another aside,.......in days gone by,......gear mesh was either by moving the Crown (on inlines) laterally, or by moving the motor fore/aft (Sidewinders) to achieve mesh/lash..........todays plastic car manufacturers have chosen to either use troughs in their Crowns (inlines), and , or ,to fix the motor positions in SW/AW motor configurations, which has required them to bugger around with tooth counts on a fixed dia. Spur in order to offer gear ratio variations,.......this works to a point, but, changing the tooth count on a fixed dia. gear does alter its pitch, and therefore does have limitations.

Here is one of those conversion thingies to determine the ideal tooth count for any .5 metric module (all the popular 1/32 manufacturers) pinions/Spurs.

1/ Take the gear dia. and multiply by 2

2/ Subtract 2

EG.,..........a 6.5mm pinion

6.5 x 2 = 13 - 2 = 11,.............a perfect  tooth count for a .5 module pitch 6.5 mm pinion is 11.

This same calculation can be used for all dia. pinions/Spurs.

In general, you can deviate about 1 tooth either way on a pinion and 2/3 on a spur, and get a very good mesh,....any more and the tooth shape/spacing etc. change so much that the pitch also changes resulting in very poor mesh/noise/friction/wear.

As long as you are using modern day pinions/Crowns/Spurs,....all metric .5 module pitch (which they all are) you can mix match both diameters and Brands without issue.

Cheers
Chris Walker

Thank you so much Chris, seriously this is fantastic mate.

I'm printing it off to digest.