[Nonfractal]

Good information on chassis selection and motor mount suspension is hard to find.

Some useful pointers from NSR
http://www.nsrslot.it/assets/download/gu...one_GB.pdf

Some good info from Black Arrow
https://www.blackarrow.es/archivos/1357676535.pdf

Slot.IT  manufacture suspension systems, even magnetically levitated systems,  but I can find no Slot.IT specific information on setting up the suspension. 

Chassis and Motor mount suspension in general : 

-Lower grip surfaces require softer chassis.
-Higher grip surfaces require harder, stiffer chassis.
-Bumpy and uneven surfaces require softer suspension
-Glass-smooth surfaces can use harder suspension.
Often a compromise setup has to be found (eg a slippery but bump free surface)

A soft spring screwed down harder is not the same as using a hard spring!
Further generalised recommendations are hard to figure out because each manufacturer uses differrent numbers of spring mount points.
(NSR use 3  slot.it use 4, thunderslot use 5 )


Full Size racing cars often use hard suspension but  not  because it improves cornering. 
The suspension is "hard" (in f1 for example) to keep the aerodynamic components where they are supposed to be in relation to the rest of the car and the road .
At full size, high speed,aero is  more important to the road holding than the suspension.

Front end suspension systems
- drop arms 
- sliding sprung guides

I've not found any good sources for how to set these options up so if anyone has information, please post. 

There is far more to suspension design than I  will ever know.
Experimentation and track time is required to figure out what works for you and what does not. 
Keep a log of suspension settings for each car and note how small changes impact the road holding and handling.
Only change one thing at a time 

Please feel free to comment and throw rocks. 
(I'm thick skinned) 

AlanW

[BAracer]

Alan

Not sure any of the following answers any of your questions, I have three theories regarding suspension on slot cars: -

1. In real like, you want to minimise the un-sprung weight of a car to maximise the effectiveness of the springs. So using F1 as an example, you effectively only have the wheels as the un-sprung weight. In slot car, you have no chance of replicating best practice, as the slot car wheels are connected to the motor which is connected to the pod, which all adds up to a significant proportion of a slot car's weight. So suspension on a slot car won't be doing the same job as suspension on a real car.

2. According to some, fast moving slots cars on plastic track spend half their time with the wheels off the ground due to the unevenness of jointed track. On that basis, and with reference to point 1, to be effective, any suspension on a plastic track slot car needs to be 'soft' to have any chance of absorbing any imperfections in the track.

3. On wood tracks, whilst 'hard' is the accepted strategy, suspension is still provided, but by small deformations in the tyres. It seems to me that installing sprung suspension on a wood track car can't do any harm. If the track is smooth, it's there but not getting in the way of anything, and if there are imperfections in the track, it can take some of the suspension responsibility off the tyres and let them get on with gripping the track. I have put a 'wood' car together with sprung suspension for some proxy races, but I will be doing some back to back testing first to compare it with a more traditionally set up car to see if there is any perceptible differences.

I have just bought an SRC Peugeot 205 rally car with no pod, but each wheel is independently sprung, so basically minimising the un-sprung weight. Really looking forward to seeing where it can go.

[Nonfractal]

I have just bought an SRC Peugeot 205 rally car with no pod, but each wheel is independently sprung, so basically minimising the un-sprung weight. Really looking forward to seeing where it can go.

Independent suspension?
Please post an interior photo!
Alan

[BAracer]

Here's one I found on the net...

   

Independent probably isn't the right word due to the presence of the axles...

But as a suspension system, it will obviously behave in a different manner to a pod suspension system.

[Nonfractal]

Oh No

This looks like SRC playing  fast and loose with the motor-axle alignment rigidity again. 
SRC motor mounts are known for causing tramping (AKA "ninco hop") because of the lack of rigidity. 

I have an SRC Capri and have managed to stiffen the whole thing up with good results. 
Others have abandoned all of the SRC mechanicals and gone for an Olifer/Slot.IT retrofit.

Please let me know how you get on with tuning this car. 


AlanW

[woodcote]

The Ninco 'Proshock' independent suspension is similar...

   

It is more plug & play that the SRC version - the suspension units were available in 'hard', 'medium' and 'soft' (colour coded) and they simply clicked into place on compatible chassis  - the knob on the chassis and the fork onto the double axle bushing.

The Proshock chassis were the later rally ones - including the final version of the Impreza (the 2005-6 'Hawkeye' facelift), the Renault Clio S1600, Peugeot 307, Ford Focus WRC, Mitsubishi Lancer, Citroën C4, Lancia Rally 037, Lancia Stratos, Ford Sierra and - of course - all the Rally Raid cars.

The suspension works well over the bumpy track joins, precipitous crests, tight corners and roughed-up track surfaces common on a slot rally track. When I experimented with the three different dampers, I ended up with slightly different settings on different cars for the same track - softer at the front / harder at the back seems to work best on the Subaru, although mediums all round (or soft at the front, medium at the back) worked better on the Lancia 037. It will depend on the track characteristics too, what else you've done to the car etc.

I also have two Slot.it Group C Porsches for club racing - one I run on Scalextric Sport track with quite soft suspension, the other is run on wood track and has no suspension, but the pod screws loosened. Those set-ups work best for me. As with any component, it's a case of experimenting and testing and seeing what set-up suits your driving style, the car and the track. If you're using the same club track week-in week-out, that's some serious data that can be gleaned and analysed. If - like us at WHO - it's a different layout every time, you end up building a good all-rounder and spend the evening (or day) learning how to maximise performance more by adjusting your driving than by tweaking the car.

[OXO cube]

isn't this type of (independent) suspension detrimental to car / gear performance 

i mean , the motor and pinion are fixed , but the rear axle and crown gear are not 
and therefore the gear mesh must be affected 
which in my 'tin pot' way of thinking is not a good thing 

pod suspension would be fine , but just rear axle ?

or am i missing something ?

kev

[BAracer]

I might just open it up later...

I am hoping the SRC people thought about this problem. I suppose it depends what the arc of travel is for the crown gear under different suspension travel scenarios. And not all suspension travel happens concurrently. It might be ok, or as suggested above, it might be better to go 'firm' at the rear to limit movement. But if all bad means is I have to buy a new crown every year, not such a hardship (if I can feel the benefit!).

Let the next Wye Valley Proxy Rally become our test bed/battle ground!

[woodcote]

Theory is one thing - and very interesting - but it's what works that really matters 

The OSC / SRC Peugeot 205 T16 has been the slot rally car to race since it came out eight years ago. An SRC Porsche 914/6 with independent suspension won our WHO Rally-Sprint, despite its narrow rear track. In fact, four of the top five had SRC or Ninco independent suspension - and it wasn't all about having an advantage on the 'rough stuff' by any means. SRC Porsche 914s dominated the 'Classic' class at the Wye Valley Winter Stages, an OSC / SRC 205 T16 came second in the 80s class and a standard Ninco C4 came third in the Modern class.

You might expect racers competing on a traditional flat club track (wood, Ninco etc) are going to remove suspension from a Ninco or SRC rally car and glue the axle bearings into the chassis... but I do remember reading a discussion on another forum when some did and some didn't. And some of the faster guys absolutely didn't.

[chrisguyw]

isn't this type of (independent) suspension detrimental to car / gear performance 

i mean , the motor and pinion are fixed , but the rear axle and crown gear are not 
and therefore the gear mesh must be affected 
which in my 'tin pot' way of thinking is not a good thing 

pod suspension would be fine , but just rear axle ?

or am i missing something ?

kev

You  have not missed a thing....absolutely correct !!!

Cheers
Chris Walker