Hi Woodcote,
No undignified argument here mate. Let’s go by facts. Happy to discuss.
Again V1.04 onwards used the LED. This information is direct from RikoRocket himself. This is not my information. I trust the guy who actually worked on the project. Sorry. Feel free to email Riko for clarification
Then with the Arc Pro you had to use the guide sensor. So as I said a change.
I do understand your point about times change. This is more about development, fun, the challenge, the emergence of miniaturisation, the satisfaction of seeing an idea through to reality, and yes it will sell. Huge market? No. Enthusiasts market? Most definitely.
I can see Scalextric using this one day.
And I can see Scalextric using DC on rails with controller to car comms like Scorpius, Oxigen and SCX currently do. (Scorpius invention now becoming industry standard).
I don’t think anything has changed radically in 10 months in the slot car industry. Maybe slightly. And you can still buy the C7042.
You didn’t answer my question on how my project is anywhere near similar to what Riko proposed?
Rick
(This post was last modified: 16th-Feb-21, 03:55 AM by ScorpiusWireless.)
Hi Rick. Clearly we will need to agree to disagree on the firmware... Your facts and mine appear to be entirely different!
You yourself said it was Riko’s idea to put the chip & LED in the guide. You said you have taken that concept a step further. My concerns with ARC Pro (and the factory settings of C7042) relate to the concept of chip / LED in the guide - and include Riko’s solution, yours, Dr_C’s and the surechange guide too (the latter two only having the LED in the guide).
What I read from your original post was your concept does away with soldering or the hassle of installing the C8515 digital plug (a 60 second job that requires no soldering and only a set of jewellers screwdrivers). I presumed - perhaps wrongly - that your were aiming this at the new wave of novice digital (ARC Pro) users. You have clarified that this wasn’t your aim - it’s just a bit of fun for established SSD enthusiasts. Thanks for clearing that up.
Of course, there are also operational issues of having the chip in a quick change guide. It is one of the weaker design features of a Scalextric car. Three of the most common failures I see with Scalextric home racers (driving hard with magnets) are the braid plate coming loose and shifting forward; the green and/or yellow wires disconnecting from the braid contacts; and the guide snapping off. Adding in the inevitable arc-ing between rails and braids, it is a hostile and vulnerable environment for a digital chip. But I am sure you have these issues covered.
Hi Woodcote,
QUOTE
C7042 doesn't care which way you go over it for 0.084, so its happy to get ID frequency before blade count and happy to get ID frequency after blade count. It does a rationale after the first passing to say oh, they are going clockwise or anticlockwise.
UNQUOTE
At the end of the day I do appreciate your input. You raise some valid points which I’m sure I can answer.
Regarding the weakness of the existing Hornby quick change plate, we ran huge 16 car Scorpius events for 6 hours here in Oz using them Commodore and Falcon cars, no issues. The PCB is fibreglass type material and extremely tough.
If a car deslots or hits something in the slot at high speed the guide blade will take all the force.
Vibration? Same as anywhere in the car.
Electrical spiking, good chance of a fail here. Only one way to find out.
This is only concept stage day 2. Our aim is to make it fully compatible. Early days yet.
Can it be made to be fully compatible? Maybe....,maybe not. But it will be fun trying.
So we have categories if possible users.
1. C7042 users
2. Arc Pro with wiring mod
3. Arc Pro without wiring mod.
1 and 2 are covered.
Pic below:
LED at rear of guide.
Small amount of guide clipped off.
Hopefully this might address the Arc Pro compatibility issue.
Tools required, small side cutters.
Shell stays on, no soldering or screwdriver required. Within skill range of entry level hobbyist.
Rick
(This post was last modified: 16th-Feb-21, 09:53 PM by ScorpiusWireless.)
I apologize for chiming in. I run an analog system. However, I am reading with interest.
This is aimed at the enthusiast? Most enthusiasts are willing to remove 4-screws to oil the chassis, and check/adjust the body float. The plug to the guide is right there.
If you are already making a dedicated part for Scalex cars. There's no reason you can't add a Scalex type female and male plug on a wire at either end of that super amazing small chip.
The guide area can become nasty over time due to dirt/dust. It would be a crime for this incredible technology to get lost because of placement issue.
If you design the chip as a universally plug ready rather than going with the dedicated Scalex guide. You're ready for many other brands down the road.
I can already see the retail packaging. The chip comes with 2-wires in and 2-wires out, and an array of plugs that snap-in for different brand cars.
You can run a Slot.It along side a Scalex, sitting beside a Carrera on one track.
Next test was a poor video. No sound so I go to reshoot video and the brand new Scaley chip burnt out.
However you can see the car triggering 5 laps on the Magic Arc app.
And you may as well see the car chip burn out. You miss the massive inferno but you get to see the tail end.
Anyway we have success with stage 1 full Arc Pro compatibility.
Next is speed testing on our vertical test loop at 12.5m/S speed.
Rick
(This post was last modified: 17th-Feb-21, 03:15 PM by JasonB.)
This is a fascinating debate... and perhaps to keep things in perspective...
Sales of ARC PRO are far outselling the remaining stock of APB C7042. So I agree with Woodcote on that earlier point.
I disagree with Ricks earlier point that ARC PRO is only a toy level product. I find the concept of BLE connectivity to a smartphone app hugely refreshing. And if you want to go further than the Hornby app, Magic has done a great job of adding more advanced features - and we know there is more to come.
For those with detailed knowledge of how the sensors operate in the APB and the ARC pro there are some key differences.
The APB has one ID sensor and one blade sensor per lane.
The ARC PRO has one double ID sensor and a further two blade sensors - its a far more advanced configuration - but I do agree some may prefer simpler solutions.
In moving the APB from v0.085 to v1.009 the requirement for blade reading in digital was eliminated.
For the ARC PRO there is no simple firmware upgrade. There is a grey wire mod and there are differences in how the Hornby app and Magic app handle elimination of double counts.
I ran a quick calculation of max vehicle speed for the new LED-in-blade plate on the ARC PRO. Without the grey-wire-mod the max speed on ID6 for 100% reliable lap counting will be 3m/s which is about half the max speed of a standard SSD saloon car on a small rug racing oval. Removing the grey wire will be key to successful exemplification of the new approach.
The new disk decoder sounds great... but it does play into a fairly complex ecosystem... understanding the details of precisely how the sensors operate and the consequences of re-positioning of IR LEDs will be important in getting a fast enthusiast-level system running reliably.
Testing continues so wether it’s worth pursuing or not will soon be clear.
Definitely worth investigation.
I’ve just installed the arc pro on the test loop.
Regarding is SSD toy level that debate will take us off topic. If you’ve raced at a Scorpius or Oxigen event you will know what I mean.
As for being an Arc Pro user now I find the app handy but a big difference to a proper race management program. And no way to actually write a PC program due to the fact it’s BLE already on its limits. The obvious problem, and it’s a big one is the lag after the car crosses the line to the time it’s installed. To be useful to enthusiasts it at minimum needs protocols released for the USB port. Considering 4 years have elapsed it’s doubtful they will ever be released.
The lag sort of makes the app half useless, annoying and makes you wonder who wrote the app ware/firmware.
More soon.
Rick
(This post was last modified: 19th-Feb-21, 01:39 PM by JasonB.)
Its nice to see the vertical loop with SSD cars running at approx 7m/s. Impressive.
I am concerned if your trials are unsuccessful it may unfairly cast doubt on the performance of the ARC PRO which in my opinion is an excellent piece of kit.
Hence three points to keep in mind.
1/ the positioning of the IR LED so close to the guide will reduce the max speed for reliable detection for ID6 - this max speed is likely to be about 3m/s. This could be improved using the grey wire mod but that means the solution is non stardard.
2/ If using the Hornby app the pit exit sensor is an integral part of the lap counting algorithm - miss this out (as you appear to have done) and there will be an (infinity -1) of missed laps.
3/ If using the Magic app there is a minimum lap time below which laps are ignored. The minimum setting is 1 .0 seconds. However with your test loop at 7m/s the minimum loop time is approx 0.8 seconds - so lots of laps will be missed.
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