Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR?

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Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - CMOTD - 18th-Dec-21

NASCAR is by no means perfect but, leaving aside the fact that you don't want F1 cars racing on banked ovals and some of the following suggestions are not entirely serious I can't help thinking there are a few things F1 could usefully take from NASCAR. Indy car procedures are similar so it can be done with single seaters as well.

Track Limits: An outer concrete wall concentrates the mind. Bigsmile

Otherwise their rule with the lower white lines is a good one. You can't take advantage by deliberately going beyond them but, if another driver forces you past them then anything goes and you can overtake on the grass if you wish. If you go straight on at a road course chicane you must come to a full stop before rejoining the track. Penalty for not doing this is a drive through.

Pace car/full yellow procedure: pit lane closed until all cars safely behind pace car then all cars on lead lap can enter if they wish at same time with lapped cars to follow next time round. Damaged cars may enter for repair while it is closed but they go to the rear on restart. No free pit stops, all down to pit lane execution. No such thing as unsafe release but double width pit lanes so cars can avoid each other.

No magic pit lane speed limit button, if you can't manage your own speed then you pay the penalty. To the rear if under yellows, drive through if green.

Lapped cars: the first lapped car gets the lucky dog at a caution and can unlap himself. The rest stay where they are and drop to the back of the pack out of the way. Saves a lot of time waiting for them all to go round and catch up. A car about to be lapped in the race is not obliged to give way and will fight hard to stay on the lead lap although they will not get in the way towards the end of the race.

No marshals on track unless pace car is in full control and incident scene protected by course vehicles. Safest for all.

No silly tyre compounds: same tyre for everybody with an upper limit on quantity. Free to change two tyres or four at pit stops according to desired strategy.

No meaningless time penalties. To the rear, drive through or black flag are the only ones available during the race. Any infringements after the race such as loose lug nuts result in a hefty fine.

Restarts: two by two with a very limited restart zone. No backing the opposition up then clearing off into the distance three corners before the start line.

No team orders: all drivers get the same equipment and opportunity to win. Team mates will work together for mutual benefit during the main part of the race but when it is time to go for the flag they are free to race with no holds barred.

No manufacturer/team championship just a driver one, eliminates inter team bitching over rules interpretation.

NASCAR's decision is final, no arguing the toss or any penalty is increased. Crew chiefs must do what they are told by race control without dissent.

Car specification is totally geared to close racing and rigidly enforced. Bend the rules a bit in pre race technical inspection and you start at the rear. Plenty of aero involved but no huge rear wings so they can follow 6 inches behind or beside another car at 200mph plus without problem. Overtaking is never easy in any form of motorsport but NASCARs can do it multiple times in a race.

Full yellows a few laps from end (like Abu Dhabi) and overtime (green/white/chequered) is used as many times as necessary. Two lap dash to the flag and everybody has the opportunity to change tyres. If the lead driver passes the white flag without incident then the next flag ends the race even if half the field is in the wall. If the yellows are thrown before the white flag then they do the whole thing over again. Now that would have been something to behold in Saudi Arabia!

Fan involvement: Before the race the drivers are not mostly entertaining sponsors and celebrities but outside the track, up on stage answering fans' questions and signing autographs.

No podium: Victory lane is for the only one who matters. "If you ain't first you're last!"

Driver altercations: nothing that can't be solved by putting your opponent into the wall at the next race or a good old fashioned punch up in the pit lane. Bigsmile

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - Gpa113 - 18th-Dec-21

All sounds good to me Thumbup

Let's be honest, F1 has made itself look utterly ridiculous over the last few Grand Prix's.

The cars definitely need to be able to overtake more, whilst actually racing.
Not in pit stops, not with Magic buttons, different tyre compounds or what ever else.
Indycar addressed the problem of the rear wing years ago, so cars can follow each other and make passing manoeuvres.

Unfortunately, the chances of any of the top teams agreeing to major changes are probably zero.
More interested in their own monetary situation than the good of the sport?

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - JasonB - 18th-Dec-21

No. Rofl

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - JasonB - 19th-Dec-21

Or maybe it could, but F1 needs to look at the huge mistakes it has made first and foremost.

It certainly needs to look into what happened at Spa, and make sure that never happens again. It also needs to investigate what happened in Abu Dhabi if it is to retain or regain any credibility with long standing F1 fans. The teams, the drivers and the fans need to have some consistency, otherwise it becomes a farce.

But, leaving aside those two shameful episodes, this season has had some of the closest, most competitive racing for years. So I wonder if the F1 authorities might now be regretting the huge changes being introduced next year.

Those changes might allow some teams to come up with something groundbreaking, as Braun did. But more often than not the teams with the most money will adapt and develop more quickly whilst the smaller teams take years to catch up.

Going back to the NASCAR rules, some of them don't sound bad, but if F1 insists on shooting itself in the foot, rule changes won't make much difference.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - Kevan - 19th-Dec-21

(19th-Dec-21, 11:48 AM)JasonB Wrote: It certainly needs to look into what happened at Spa, and make sure that never happens again. It also needs to investigate what happened in Abu Dhabi if it is to retain or regain any credibility with long standing F1 fans.

FIA credibility is currently at zero, exponentially falling over the last two years.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - woodcote - 20th-Dec-21

One thing F1 could definitely learn from Nascar is if a race is rained-off on the Sunday, it gets re-scheduled for the Monday morning or lunchtime. No repeat of that fiasco in Spa... With more extreme weather events, perhaps a wash-out might happen once every couple of years. At least teams and the F1 circuit would have contingency plans in place, just in case their departure is delayed 24 hours.

I do like Nascar very much... and I bet my bottom dollar a yellow flag would have come out towards the end of the Abu Dhabi race, had Nascar been in charge. It wouldn't have needed Latifi's crash - just an empty crisp packet lying a few yards off the racing line. Lewis would have stopped for tyres - and probably Max too... although someone else on the lead lap might have stayed out to start in front. Two final laps would have been guaranteed with the option of 'overtime' - the race can't end under caution. It would have been a fair and very exciting climax to the season.

If F1 wants to go down the entertainment route, they must have such scenarios thought out. That's what Nascar have done. Even if they want to keep it more traditional, the fans, teams and drivers still need to know what to expect in these scenarios.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - Kevan - 20th-Dec-21

The Spa farce couldn't be postponed until Monday, it was a holiday weekend and marshalls wouldn't be available for the race so they did what they did...yes it was farcical...but not the most farcical weekend of this season, they saved that for the finale with peak viewing.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - woodcote - 20th-Dec-21

Most marshals will move heaven and earth to work a Grand Prix - and with a contingency plan in place, it should be no trouble to delay. The point I was trying to make is that race directors should never have to make it up on the hoof - other series plan very effectively for these scenarios and everyone knows what will happen.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - Kevan - 20th-Dec-21

(20th-Dec-21, 01:38 PM)woodcote Wrote: The point I was trying to make is that race directors should never have to make it up on the hoof

Masi has proved more than capable of doing that.

RE: Could F1 learn anything from NASCAR? - woodcote - 20th-Dec-21

It could be argued that the inadequate structure and lack of imagination of the administrators put Masi in that impossible position. Hence Brian’s excellent suggestion that F1 might learn something from NASCAR going forward from 2021. I’m all for trying to improve things for the future.

Sure, there are still grumbles in NASCAR, but the overall philosophy - if not the exact details - might be good for F1 to look at. They certainly know how to put on a show and keep the crew chiefs off their backs. The pitlane brawls are pretty special too - especially as most of the pit crew are ex-American footballers. Can’t see that becoming a feature of the F1 pitlane though…